Discussion:
[restyle] All-out Spec Template Redesign Collaboration
fantasai
2018-01-24 01:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Yo!
Gonna make proper formal announcement through all relevant W3C
comm channels later, but wanted to give spec-prod a heads up
that W3C (more or less represented by me, plh, and everyone who
bothers to comment) and Jefferson University (represented by a
student design team from their Interaction Design department)
will be collaborating on the rewrite-the-spec-templates effort [1].
This will be a semester-long project for the students, with the
goal of producing a prototype. (I expect the entire project,
from kickoff to production, to take 1-2 years.)

If there's info that belongs in the spec templates that's not
listed in the wiki at
https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle/Content
please add it in.

The students are putting together a URL to a blog or something
that we'll use to communicate, and I expect all of you here to
give them a lot to think about--as I'm effectively asking them
to work through the spec development “process” of
1. Post your proposed solution.
2. Have people tell you, specifically, that you're wrong.
3. Edit to take the feedback into account.
4. Repeat from the top until it kinda-sorta stabilizes.

Since we do things here by consensus, it's going to take the
consensus of all of you to make this project happen, and that
means giving these students enough guidance to stay on the
rails as they work through the problem.

The scope of the project is re-envisioning what the spec
template can be, to make it more usable and to bring actual
content above the fold. Everything is in scope (HTML, CSS,
boilerplate) except the prose of the specification itself.

And yes, we're going to rip apart Status of this Document.
Among other things. So start thinking about it, and feel free
to document/edit your considerations into the wiki [1]. I
expect they'll be conducting surveys / interviews as well,
but we might as well get our ducks in a row so they don't get
lost. ;)

[1] https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle

~fantasai
Marcos Caceres
2018-01-24 03:12:05 UTC
Permalink
On January 24, 2018 at 12:29:31 PM, fantasai
Post by fantasai
And yes, we're going to rip apart Status of this Document.
Among other things. So start thinking about it, and feel free
to document/edit your considerations into the wiki [1]. I
expect they'll be conducting surveys / interviews as well,
but we might as well get our ducks in a row so they don't get
lost. ;)
Super exciting news! Please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

If any of the students want to hack on the ReSpec templates, I'm happy
to mentor/guide them.

Kind regards,
Marcos
Michiel Bijl
2018-01-24 08:16:39 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like a great project!

— Michiel
Post by fantasai
Yo!
Gonna make proper formal announcement through all relevant W3C
comm channels later, but wanted to give spec-prod a heads up
that W3C (more or less represented by me, plh, and everyone who
bothers to comment) and Jefferson University (represented by a
student design team from their Interaction Design department)
will be collaborating on the rewrite-the-spec-templates effort [1].
This will be a semester-long project for the students, with the
goal of producing a prototype. (I expect the entire project,
from kickoff to production, to take 1-2 years.)
If there's info that belongs in the spec templates that's not
listed in the wiki at
https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle/Content
please add it in.
The students are putting together a URL to a blog or something
that we'll use to communicate, and I expect all of you here to
give them a lot to think about--as I'm effectively asking them
to work through the spec development “process” of
1. Post your proposed solution.
2. Have people tell you, specifically, that you're wrong.
3. Edit to take the feedback into account.
4. Repeat from the top until it kinda-sorta stabilizes.
Since we do things here by consensus, it's going to take the
consensus of all of you to make this project happen, and that
means giving these students enough guidance to stay on the
rails as they work through the problem.
The scope of the project is re-envisioning what the spec
template can be, to make it more usable and to bring actual
content above the fold. Everything is in scope (HTML, CSS,
boilerplate) except the prose of the specification itself.
And yes, we're going to rip apart Status of this Document.
Among other things. So start thinking about it, and feel free
to document/edit your considerations into the wiki [1]. I
expect they'll be conducting surveys / interviews as well,
but we might as well get our ducks in a row so they don't get
lost. ;)
[1] https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
~fantasai
fantasai
2018-01-30 07:06:41 UTC
Permalink
For the purpose of archiving the “useful links” and other notes, copying some
notes I sent along here. If there's anything important that I missed, let me
know and I'll forward the info along. :)

~fantasai

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Overview of project and requirements on the W3C wiki:
https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
This includes links to content requirements, design requirements, etc.
(If you want an account to edit this page, ask plh; I am sure he can set one up.)

Decisions:
W3C operates by consensus: it's all of our goal to get to a better place, and
we work on things and discuss them until we all agree on the right way forward.
So the project decisions are not up to me and plh--we defer to the rest of the
community, move things forward when we're all agreed, and mediate when there's
a conflict.

Overview of one Working Group's process:
http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/weblog/2011/inside-csswg/

Specification Examples:
Short spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/css-namespaces/
Long spec: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/ (different org, same concept)
Multipage spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG2/
Average specs: http://www.w3.org/TR/css-grid-1/ http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/

Information about accessibility:
https://webaim.org/articles/

Information about design & CSS coding:
http://jensimmons.com/presentation/designing-grid (I'd recommend watching this video :)
http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/talks/best-practices/ (for when you write code)

Information on the backend:
* It's all static HTML files, see markup conventions in
https://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/TR/2016/readme.html
* CSS is static, goes here:
https://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/TR/2016/
* Spec authors use preprocessors to generate the HTML before posting, e.g.
https://tabatkins.github.io/bikeshed/ or
https://github.com/w3c/respec/
You do not need to worry about these tools for the design; they will generate
whatever we decide is the correct HTML.

Communication:
* spec editors' mailing list at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/spec-prod/
* blog or other website, wherever you set it up; or you can ask us to set it up;
we will announce the URL through various channels, and announce anything else
you need us to

W3C works in public, on the Internet: all of our files are public, and we post
snapshots of our progress (on whatever it is we're working on) for people to
comment on. They provide us with useful ideas and critiques, which we incorporate
into the next phase of the work. You should also do this: post updates explaining
what you're working on, including your notes, wireframes, requirements docs,
whatever you create or collect for your own reference; and ask for feedback.
It's a radically open, collaborative process, with the experts (that's you! ;)
responsible for synthesizing information, and providing expert guidance and
direction; and the community responsible for reviews, pointing out errors,
providing missing background information, and suggesting improvements.

I expect it'll be a somewhat unfamiliar and initially uncomfortable mode of
working for you, but I also expect you'll learn a lot if you engage with it...

~fantasai
fantasai
2018-02-03 01:21:03 UTC
Permalink
And we're live! Well, Jefferson is live. I'm not sure what's the state of W3C announcements.
https://sites.philau.edu/dillardl/

There's a survey there that it would be great to have people fill out. ^_^

*pokes plh*

~fantasai
fantasai
2018-02-08 20:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by fantasai
And we're live! Well, Jefferson is live. I'm not sure what's the state of W3C announcements.
  https://sites.philau.edu/dillardl/
There's a survey there that it would be great to have people fill out. ^_^
*pokes plh*
And it's official!
https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/6823

~fantasai

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